Hi, I'm back, and last time I spoke
to you on this podcast, we were

celebrating 16 years of Go Squared.

Believe it or not, if you were
listening to the podcast before,

that was four years ago, and Go
Squared has just celebrated its 20th.

Birthday.

We have been running Go squared in
some shape or form for 20 years.

2006 was when we formed the company.

I was at school with my co-founders
and this was pre iPhone.

I think the iPod video
was popular at the time.

I think the motor razor was
still a pretty cool phone.

Some of my favorite bands were in
the charts, like the Arctic Monkeys.

Maybe some things don't change too much.

Anyway, I have been feeling guilty for
four years because when I last did an

episode of this podcast, I did half.

Of our lessons learned from turning
16 and I promised to follow up

with a part two where we were gonna
talk about the other eight lessons

of running running Go squared.

Now let's see how we do today, but I would
love to pick up where we left off four

years ago and just cover some of the.

Lessons we've learned running
Go squared along the way.

Like we normally do, try and keep
this episode to 20 minutes or so.

So let's dive in Now.

There's a few lessons over the years
that I've picked up around running a

team and I wanted to share the things
that I felt have helped me along the way.

The first is.

You don't need a big team often.

It's really tempting to compare
your success as a founder to

another company based on team size.

I think a heck of a lot has
changed in the last 20 years, but

especially even the last four years.

And I think small teams can
truly outmaneuver bigger

teams in so, so many ways.

Now I know Amazon has famously had
this concept of two pizza teams where

you ideally want to be able to feed
everyone on your team with two pizzas.

I'm not quite sure of the exact size
of those pizzas, but, um, but the

whole point is to be keeping things
focused smaller and more nimble.

I think for us, like we found that
when you have really, really great.

Smart people that are really passionate,
it's incredible what they can do.

I would even argue that just one
person can often change the game

compared to a team of 10 that are not
sufficiently motivated or knowledgeable.

So I think more and more I just
don't really compare on team size

anymore, and it is something I, for
a long time felt very uneasy about.

But yeah, there's some amazing people and
amazing companies and amazing teams doing

incredible work, best work in the industry
by being smaller than the competition.

Another thing, especially around
team stuff is I've always found it

valuable to celebrate the small wins.

As anyone who's run or been in a startup
for any amount of time will know.

There are often so many
things that can get you down.

There are always issues,
problems, churn, competition.

All sorts of things that
will throw you off balance.

You can't always control what bad happens
and you can't control what good happens.

A lot of things come down to luck
or good fortune, but something

I've always found is crucial is
that when good stuff does happen.

Don't let it go by silently
celebrate it, even if it is small,

even if it's maybe something that
might be viewed as a failure.

Often that can be framed
as a positive thing.

When you test something out and you
try a different design, you try a

different homepage, you try a feature
out, people don't like it or it doesn't

work as well as the previous one.

There's always something to celebrate.

Especially when you have failures
like that, they're not showstopping,

they're just bumps along the way.

But those failures can be
things that you learn from.

And I do think those can be viewed
as small wins along the way.

So always find ways to celebrate.

And if you've got genuinely good stuff,
then really don't take that for granted.

Either a good quote from a customer,
a new customer coming on board

that you're really excited about.

Celebrate those things as a team.

That energy is what pulls
you through the dark times.

Another thing around meetings, and
I think we've really found this once

we moved to being a remote team,
meetings often don't need to happen.

Now often I really hear
this feedback a lot.

Most people don't really wanna spend
their time in meetings, but it is a

continuous battle to avoid meetings.

Now, avoiding meetings for meeting's
sake is not really the game and

the goal from my perspective.

If you're a small software team
like us most of the people get

their work done with really focused
deep work, focused time without

interruptions or distractions.

Meetings are interruptions for
sure, and often distractions.

Sometimes they get you on the same page.

They help a decision be made.

They help the team understand
the context of something.

But so, so often meetings overrun, they're
poorly managed, they're inconclusive,

they lead to another meeting.

You sometimes end up having meetings
about the number of meetings.

We've all been there.

But I would say my goal often is to
try and keep the number of meetings.

To the absolute bare minimum
to try and ensure it's really.

Really strict what's allowed
to be a recurring meeting.

And to really question every
meeting that exists in the calendar.

I'm talking here primarily about
internal team meetings, not so

much customer meetings and calls
and sales calls, things like that.

Those are, I think, in my mind,
a different, a different box.

But when you think about how
you're operating as a team finding

ways to reduce those or make
some of that more asynchronous

can be really, really valuable.

And in fact, something I've really found,
especially over the last few years has

been, I love hanging out with my team.

I love being around the people
I work with, but you don't

need that to be a meeting.

Like trying to find ways to really.

Make the best out of socially
interacting with everyone, whether

that's getting together in person,
whether that's organizing in a way

day doing some volunteering together.

Those are like really
good quality bonding time.

That doesn't really happen when
you are on a Zoom call as a team.

And then in terms of the meetings
that do matter, trying to get as

much value from that time you do
have on a call together as possible.

And to do that, I think it really takes
someone to lead the meeting and own the

meeting and to thoroughly prepare for the
meeting to make sure everyone knows what's

expected of that meeting ahead of time.

There's a whole load more we could talk
about on the subject of meetings, but

just generally, I think my conclusion
over many, many years has been try

to get rid of as many as possible.

Almost all of them don't need
to happen, and only one or two

deserve to be there and make them
the best they can possibly be.

Another thing that I've really
realized as I've grown up has

been working with other people.

The best way to get the best out of other
people and to work with other people

effectively, is to really know yourself.

And I think I, I don't know that I
have nailed this yet, but I've really

become clearer over time what I love to
do, what drains my energy, what gives

me energy, and to really remind myself
of what gets me up in the morning.

And to try and reflect as much as
possible at the end of the day, was

that day really how I wanted it to go?

What was worrying me today?

What was causing me anxiety?

What was giving me joy?

And to try and reflect
and iterate based on that.

Because the chances are the stuff
you love to do, you're probably.

Shaza, you become better at those
things because you keep wanting to

do them and you do them more and
more, and there's a bunch of stuff

you're probably not very good at.

I know for me, there's so many things I'm
not good at and find draining, and there's

people out there that love those things.

And so I think a big art to working
well as a team is for the, for each

person on the team to know what they.

Love and don't love and to be open
about that because that's how I

think everyone works together more
effectively enjoys their work and,

ultimately delivers better results.

So there are a few things about
team, staff and then on the side

of like, more generally sort of,
leading the business, there's a few,

few key themes that have really.

Stuck out to me.

I've written about it a few times,
but there's this whole thing I've

noticed, especially as running a
company for like, so, so many years.

The natural path is for things to
get more complicated and com complex.

It's never, it is never someone wanting
to necessarily make things worse.

Complexity comes in for
very good reasons, but.

I think one of the dangerous
things is that complexity can

sometimes look good on the surface.

It can mean an additional feature
for a user in the product or an

additional situation where we're
dealing with things in a better way

for a certain process or catering to
another need on our marketing site.

But often that complexity.

Becomes so, so difficult to maintain
over time, and you end up in this

situation where it becomes really, really
hard to change things and move quickly

and make decisions because complexity
has crept up on you to a point where.

It's holding you back and you
have to think through so many

different scenarios and situations.

It's quite hard to talk about in the
abstract sometimes, but a quote that

I really loved, it's from a computer
scientist called Aaron Perlis.

Fools Ignore complexity,
pragmatists suffer it.

Some can avoid it.

And geniuses remove it.

I think that really summarizes it for me.

It's really difficult.

I think of simplicity being this war.

You are always in a battle
against complexity and.

Trying wherever possible to be
observant and be aware of where

complexity is creeping in, and
to try to side with simplicity.

Because simplicity, if well
maintained, means that you're

not just moving quickly today.

You're able to continue to iterate and
move quickly in the future and be more

confident in every decision you make.

Another thing I've found when working
with the team is that often you can make

decisions and you can figure things out
and you can feel like you've got things

nailed down and you might say them once
in front of your team as a leader, like

that's good that you're making decisions
and moving forward, but it's so easy for

you as the founder who might be thinking
about these things a lot more deeply

or a lot more thoroughly, or just a
lot more than other people on the team.

It can be really easy to assume
everyone heard what you said and

read what you said, and has it
totally locked into their brain.

And I think that's just
so often not the case.

It's not because other people are
not being diligent and listening

thoroughly or intently enough.

It's because everyone has so much going
on, whether it's in their work lives and

personal lives and everything in between.

And so I think it's incredibly
important that you repeat yourself.

And even when you feel like
you're repeating yourself too

much, probably still not quite
enough to get that message home.

I think this is such a common
thing you see in marketing and

messaging as well to the wider world.

You can really feel like
you've said a message.

It'll feel silly to say that message
again because I've already said it,

but the reality is saying that message.

Over and over and over again is what
you need to do for it to actually stick.

And I am always trying to get better at
this because it's a really difficult one.

You can kind of feel like you're
going crazy, saying the same

thing over and over again.

You can get bored of saying it yourself.

There's another good quote that I
love from Elizabeth Arden who's a,

who started the cosmetics empire.

Repetition makes a reputation
and reputation makes customers.

I think that's pretty good.

Now, next one is something that I
think I've always struggled with and

it's such common advice, and I hope I
can be more than useless on this, but

everyone tells you to focus and focus.

Is so, so hard.

I think, you know, I love
working on new things.

I love new ideas.

I love new adventures, and it
can be so hard to try to focus on

something you've already decided.

When new things come along or new
information comes along, one of

the hardest things about focus
is deciding you're gonna focus

and then being met with new.

And changing circumstances and then
having that decision over and over again

to figure out if that's what you need to
keep focusing on or, or change course.

There's obviously no hard and fast rule
on this, but focus is hard and all I

know is that if you are not focused, you
are going to really, really struggle.

Difficult as an individual,
but even more so as a team.

If the priorities are not clear or
the priority is not clear, then you

end up with everyone going in slightly
different directions, all doing good

work and hard work, but you dissipate
the energy and lose the momentum that

comes from when everyone is focused.

We've seen this a lot over
the years with Go Squared.

With really, really strong focus on
our analytics product in the early

days, and we managed to build a lot
of momentum and we lost a lot of focus

as we went into being a multi-product
company with Go Squared meaning

different things to different people.

We had that ultimate experience
of losing focus, and the negative

effects of that are huge because.

Once you lose that focus, it's very,
very hard to bring it back and you

end up working harder and harder and
harder, but in more and more directions,

which yields weaker and weaker results,
which feels this cycle of frustration.

And so I don't really know how to
say to anyone listening exactly

how you should find focus, but.

I think it is worth that time,
whether it's sitting in a room in

silence or taking a day doing nothing,
but figuring out those priorities.

If you can find that focus and
that priority, it can massively

amplify and multiply, multiply
all of your efforts and work.

Now, my 16th lesson, and.

Still is relevant today
in 2026 is to just start.

I had it written down as JFD.

I just freaking do it.

Just do it.

You know, I don't wanna infringe
Nike's trademark there too much,

but you can so easily overthink
everything and some people are.

More thinkers than others.

I'm not saying thinking is ever a
bad thing, but at some point, every

founder, every builder, every creator
has had to start doing the thing.

I think what's so exciting about the
world we live in now with the tools and

technologies that are at our disposal It's
easier than ever to start and often by

starting that is the best way to learn.

It is impossible to think through
every permutation and possible

situation, scenario that might
happen when starting a company.

But one of the best things to do
is to just start making progress.

Because by making progress, by
taking one step and one putting

one foot in front of the other.

You'd be amazed at how
much more clarity you gain.

You start to realize things that you
thought were problems and not such big

problems, or the problem you thought
you had is totally not the issue.

It's a totally different thing you
didn't even think about early on.

Just starting to move forwards
is the thing that every founder

has to do at some point, and the
sooner you do it, the better.

I think that should be about it.

For today's episode.

I will leave you with the words of
someone I have always, always dearly

admired, and that of course is our
good friend Steve and he once said,

everything around you that you call
life was made up by people that were no

smarter than you, and you can change it.

You can influence it, you can build your
own things that other people can use.

I think those words are
pretty lovely to finish on.

So thank you for listening to an
episode that is just a mere four years

late and, uh, it's great to be back.

Thank you for listening.

If you've enjoyed this
episode, please do let me know.

Give it a.

Positive rating and please
subscribe if you aren't already,

So thank you and see you soon.